Author Topic: Sign stealing  (Read 368 times)

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mikejack20

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2020, 03:05:34 pm »
Taking a title away won't matter?

as a future deterrent, no, i dont think it will stop players from trying to get an edge.

krukster

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2020, 03:40:16 pm »
as a future deterrent, no, i dont think it will stop players from trying to get an edge.

The teams themselves would be heavily deterred from doing this.  In fact they'd put in extra effort to make sure it doesn't happen.

rzzzzz

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2020, 10:17:49 am »
i dont think that will solve the problem nor will it matter all that much...it will be the instant gratification for fans, but in the long run, dont think that will matter all that  much.

how's the PED crackdown working so far?  lately, you don't see too many guys breaking homerun records, or aging pitchers suddenly throwing better than ever.  i don't think teams are going to like risking any chance of winning a title or managers getting tossed.  (and if that doesn't work, players would be next.  for all the "culture" of the game, there have been a lot of enforced changes over the years.)
And all those who had faith were at the same place and owned all things communally.

krukster

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2020, 11:10:44 am »
how's the PED crackdown working so far?  lately, you don't see too many guys breaking homerun records, or aging pitchers suddenly throwing better than ever.  i don't think teams are going to like risking any chance of winning a title or managers getting tossed.  (and if that doesn't work, players would be next.  for all the "culture" of the game, there have been a lot of enforced changes over the years.)

This past year was a record season for homeruns.  But the consensus seems to be that the balls are wound up tighter.  Pedro Martinez joked about how his two fingers no longer comfortably fit between the seems.


mikejack20

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2020, 11:56:50 am »
how's the PED crackdown working so far?  lately, you don't see too many guys breaking homerun records, or aging pitchers suddenly throwing better than ever.  i don't think teams are going to like risking any chance of winning a title or managers getting tossed.  (and if that doesn't work, players would be next.  for all the "culture" of the game, there have been a lot of enforced changes over the years.)

The ped crackdown has individual penalties, start penalizing the players heavily and that may me a detterent. The ped violations arent vacating titles, etc. I don't see that as a valid threat to stop future cheating.

guest65

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2020, 12:10:29 pm »
Only way to stop cheating is by hitting everyone where it hurts. In the wallet. Millionaire cheaters are still millionaires after they cheat. Make the penalty so severe that they lose all their monies made with very heavy fines and lifetime banishment's for the cheaters. Contracts voided for first time offenders and half their contract's salaries going to charities.

Owners also fined personally for hiring cheaters. Hundreds of millions fined their way if they have more than one cheater caught per CBA agreement. Fined monies go to their cities.

rzzzzz

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2020, 04:49:31 pm »
The ped crackdown has individual penalties, start penalizing the players heavily and that may me a detterent. The ped violations arent vacating titles, etc. I don't see that as a valid threat to stop future cheating.

(we left out gambling too.)  i disagree.  only raises the ante.  if cheating costs teams titles, then you sure as hell don't ever want to be caught cheating, especially if you're even just contending.   now everybody knows what to expect next time.
And all those who had faith were at the same place and owned all things communally.

mikejack20

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2020, 04:58:50 pm »
(we left out gambling too.)  i disagree.  only raises the ante.  if cheating costs teams titles, then you sure as hell don't ever want to be caught cheating, especially if you're even just contending.   now everybody knows what to expect next time.

Are you taking away the players salaries? The bonuses for winning the world series? Their rings? Etc. Maybe the higher ups will want it stopped, but if you're a journey man player or a guy that has played on 5 teams, do you care that your world series is taken from you 3 years ago if you aren't suspended or lose a cent?

alwaysphil1

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2020, 08:59:07 pm »
I think the Astros are not the only team that really crossed the line and are facing punishment. What other teams do you think went overboard in 2019?

I would check the Astros coaching staff and players like Beltran who may be on coaching staffs and you'll find exquisite strategies.

rzzzzz

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2020, 11:42:03 am »
Maybe the higher ups will want it stopped, but if you're a journey man player or a guy that has played on 5 teams, do you care that your world series is taken from you 3 years ago if you aren't suspended or lose a cent?

i was under the impression that THIS cheating involved cameras and other electronics set up around the ball park.  i don't see a journey man player pulling this off on his own wherever he goes.
And all those who had faith were at the same place and owned all things communally.

mikejack20

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2020, 03:10:03 pm »
i was under the impression that THIS cheating involved cameras and other electronics set up around the ball park.  i don't see a journey man player pulling this off on his own wherever he goes.

it wasnt....the point is players will continue to try to gain any edge they can, taking away a championship from 3 years ago wont stop players from cheating. hit them with a 81 game suspension, fine big time, etc, that will deter more then vacating a title. do you think carlos beltran cares if the championship from 2017 is vacated?

rzzzzz

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2020, 10:15:47 am »
do you think carlos beltran cares if the championship from 2017 is vacated?

Big time.  The scandal has already cost him his dream job.  He'd hate to get banished like Pete Rose.

(players looking for small advantages is not the same thing as organizations systematically cheating with high tech, using multiple staff organized and deployed in a concerted strategy.) 
And all those who had faith were at the same place and owned all things communally.

mikejack20

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2020, 10:18:20 am »
Big time.  The scandal has already cost him his dream job.  He'd hate to get banished like Pete Rose.

(players looking for small advantages is not the same thing as organizations systematically cheating with high tech, using multiple staff organized and deployed in a concerted strategy.)

It has cost him big time, but the title hasn't been vacated. Beltran doesn't care about that now.

guest65

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Re: Sign stealing
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2020, 10:20:41 am »
Manfred should be the one getting the lifetime ban. He is doing nothing to stop the cheating, the juiced balls, peds or anything else. He looks more like he is covering things up than punishing anyone.