Author Topic: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!  (Read 969 times)

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jrthebeat

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2021, 11:23:59 pm »

No I don’t concede any of that. This is professional sports and someone is going through the exact same situation and playing the best ball of his career, Joel Embiid.

MCW didn’t have Joel his entire career to win games and sweep his struggles under the rug. 

I personally believe he’s better than he’s showing, until he shows it there is no excuses.  Told you the same thing while you were making excuses for Brett.  Heighten your standards and expectations.

thats not exactly fair
jo is learning where his guys are going to be when he is double teamed. he is doing a good job but still perfecting it
ben has to run the offence
he has to know where everybody is, where everybody is going to be, who needs a boost, who needs the ball to get going etc
i am not telling u a great PG wouldnt already be ahead of ben
i am telling u every year when we have a bunch of new faces it takes ben a few weeks or even more to get the new stuff sorted and he lets his own offence languish before he is comfortable looking for his own offence
thats why last season he started around 14/game but finished over 20 a game

and thats why this early slump doesnt surprise or concern me

jrthebeat

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2021, 11:26:26 pm »

This is my point exactly. Now pay attention. Everything you said was inside, inside, inside. Joel is learning to deal with it, still not optimal. 

Now the other 3 guys. They are forced to live and die on jumpers?  I think in the playoffs they die. 

My question, what do you think happens in the playoffs?

Sure respond to what I said but try to answer the question if you don’t mind. Thanks

cmon Young
"Now the other 3 guys. They are forced to live and die on jumpers?  I think in the playoffs they die.  "

seth and green ONLY shoot jumpers
thats what they do
tobias mixes it up and continues to do so but we want him shooting more 3s, not less
the playoffs arent the same now as in 2000 or 2010
jumpshooting teams win rings now

krukster

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2021, 11:30:11 pm »
cmon Young
"Now the other 3 guys. They are forced to live and die on jumpers?  I think in the playoffs they die.  "

seth and green ONLY shoot jumpers
thats what they do
tobias mixes it up and continues to do so but we want him shooting more 3s, not less
the playoffs arent the same now as in 2000 or 2010
jumpshooting teams win rings now

I hear what young is saying, you don't want to depend on the 3 to win.

But I think young is underselling how good our D is when Ben and Joel are playing.  That helps you win on days the jumper don't go down.

And I don't think Ben prevents Shake, Maxey and Joel from hero balling it when needed.

Young22

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2021, 11:48:45 pm »
I hear what young is saying, you don't want to depend on the 3 to win.

But I think young is underselling how good our D is when Ben and Joel are playing.  That helps you win on days the jumper don't go down.

And I don't think Ben prevents Shake, Maxey and Joel from hero balling it when needed.


Now this is where we agree, the defense is for real, I don’t agree with you hating on maxey.  If Ben could hit any sort of perimeter shot, it opens a whole new lane for Maxey.  You blame Maxey I blame Ben for being a zero on offense. If he was any kind of threat it would open it up for Maxey, I don’t agree.  U blame Tobias I blame Ben. You blame Joel I blame Ben. You blame Shake I’m blame Ben. You blame Danny I blame Ben, you blame Tobias I blame Ben, you blame Joel I blame Ben. We disagree

jrthebeat

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2021, 11:52:08 pm »
I hear what young is saying, you don't want to depend on the 3 to win.

But I think young is underselling how good our D is when Ben and Joel are playing.  That helps you win on days the jumper don't go down.

And I don't think Ben prevents Shake, Maxey and Joel from hero balling it when needed.

CAN WE go back to our animosity for just one second?
have u watched joel??
do u still think this guy shouldnt be anywhere but on the low block?
have u seen him scoring from the free throw line jumpers?
have u noticed he is shooting 38% from 3?
can u see now why brown and others didnt listen to shaq and barkley and wanted jo to be able to use his versatility?

krukster

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2021, 11:56:42 pm »
CAN WE go back to our animosity for just one second?
have u watched joel??
do u still think this guy shouldnt be anywhere but on the low block?

I think if Doc had gotten a hold of Embiid when he first came into the league, he'd have parked him inside.

Doc's not about changing a players wiring, but rather getting the most out of a given player based on the wiring they have.

After 5+ years of Brett, Embiid's been hard wired to think he MUST touch the ball at least once a possession.

But at least Joel is not the human car crash we saw in prior seasons.  I credit that to the much more intelligent spacing and motion we have around him.  And some subtle tips Doc gave him.

jrthebeat

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2021, 12:17:03 am »
I think if Doc had gotten a hold of Embiid when he first came into the league, he'd have parked him inside.

Doc's not about changing a players wiring, but rather getting the most out of a given player based on the wiring they have.

After 5+ years of Brett, Embiid's been hard wired to think he MUST touch the ball at least once a possession.

But at least Joel is not the human car crash we saw in prior seasons.  I credit that to the much more intelligent spacing and motion we have around him.  And some subtle tips Doc gave him.

lol so u basically concede nothing
quel surprise
no, u were wrong about jojo
he is capable of doing much more than just low post
buit i too love to see him bully guys every now and then
but his jumper is  butter
and now his playmaking from the top of the key doesnt look out of place at all

krukster

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2021, 12:25:26 am »
lol so u basically concede nothing
quel surprise
no, u were wrong about jojo
he is capable of doing much more than just low post
buit i too love to see him bully guys every now and then
but his jumper is  butter
and now his playmaking from the top of the key doesnt look out of place at all

It's called "nature versus nurture" for a reason.

Brett got Joel when he was an NBA infant.

Doc got Joel when he was a well intentioned but poorly raised teen.

The jumpers from giants are nice, but facts are facts.  Shaq in his prime had an eFG% of 60%+.  Embiid for all the great shooting he's shown us this year is at 58%.

Shaq didn't even need to be in shape to do what he did.  Joel has to be in tip top shape.

GP1

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2021, 04:58:01 am »

None of those teams had a guy who seen a open 8ft shot and didn’t say thank you. 

You talk a lot about hero ball, what exactly do you expect the rest of the team to do when they’re playing 4 on 5?

Sure Ben can live in the dunkers spot and Joel can post up. But the rest of the team is supposed to live on jump shots?  Like Tobias just can’t take it to the rim because it’s already 4 guys down there?

You guys take nobody else into consideration. It’s a team game and you build around the guy who carries you.

BEN DOES NOT CARRY THIS TEAM. That would be Joel. What exactly does Ben do to help Joel on offense? He actually hurts him by not creating space.  This is too easy and too stupid to keep having the same conversation with you.

I think the thread starter and others had a bit too much wine that night

If Ben is a superstar TBH is a first ballot hall of famer

This debate is getting dumber by the minute

I don’t recall Lamar Odom , Arizona , or Rondo ever being a core player to a title team

We have a great role player who scores like a 12 year old girl
« Last Edit: January 22, 2021, 07:40:24 am by GP1 »

Phillyterp85

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2021, 05:42:27 am »
It's called "nature versus nurture" for a reason.

Brett got Joel when he was an NBA infant.

Doc got Joel when he was a well intentioned but poorly raised teen.

The jumpers from giants are nice, but facts are facts.  Shaq in his prime had an eFG% of 60%+.  Embiid for all the great shooting he's shown us this year is at 58%.

Shaq didn't even need to be in shape to do what he did.  Joel has to be in tip top shape.

Joel doesn’t have the low post game that shaq had. 

Why would you want Joel to park himself inside all game when he also has the skill to hit the mid range jumper and do so effectively?   

Welp

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2021, 05:48:22 am »
this is getting out of hand

the guy is averaging 12 9 and 8 and playing 1st team all-defence

he is 5th in assists, 12th in steals, 17th in rebounding,
whats more important, we are 1st in the East and 4th overall
its barely 15 games into the season - with a new coach, new terminology and 4 new rotation players is it really so crazy that our PG is perhaps struggling a little and sublimating his own offence for the good of the team and focusing more on getting everyone else involved?

and he's 24!! just! he has only played 230 games in his whole career. less than 3 full seasons of games. that's nothing! his career is just beginning and u guys want to trade him for malcolm Brogdon? for Andrew Wiggins? for RJ Barrett?

are u on drugs????
because his isnt getting the extra 8 pts/game that lets u relax with a 20 pt scorer?
because he doesnt shoot jumpshots?
he may never shoot them.
but he can help us win titles with his triple double averages and we need to focus on what he does so well instead of obsessing about what he doesnt

When you are pick #1 you are supposed to be the franchise changer. Zion in what his second season and people are saying he need to loose weight and he have to do more than just slam dunk. Ben in his 4yr has not improved a bit and what so bad is that his mechanics are so bad. His shot is so stiff it’s like he shooting with the wrong hand.When he drives to the basket he jumping off the wrong foot.
Ben stats are pretty sound for a role play but the Sixers need a star

GP1

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2021, 07:42:09 am »
When you are pick #1 you are supposed to be the franchise changer. Zion in what his second season and people are saying he need to loose weight and he have to do more than just slam dunk. Ben in his 4yr has not improved a bit and what so bad is that his mechanics are so bad. His shot is so stiff it’s like he shooting with the wrong hand.When he drives to the basket he jumping off the wrong foot.
Ben stats are pretty sound for a role play but the Sixers need a star

Pretty sound role players don't go #1 , you find those guys anywhere in the draft

krukster

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2021, 07:59:01 am »
Joel doesn’t have the low post game that shaq had. 

Why would you want Joel to park himself inside all game when he also has the skill to hit the mid range jumper and do so effectively?

Embiid's efficiency in the post is elite and unlike Shaq, Joel makes his free throws when fouled.

When you look at it purely in terms of "paint touches" Joel pretty much gets you over a point every time the ball just touches his hands in the paint.  And it ain't on account of him being on the receiving end of some easy lobs off the pick and roll like with other bigs.  He can literally just plow his way inside in the most telegraphed of fashion, get the ball, and poof your team will average over one point on it.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2021, 08:34:47 am by krukster »

Phillyterp85

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2021, 08:28:23 am »
Embiid efficiency in the post is elite and unlike Shaq, Joel makes his free throws when fouled.

When you look at it purely in terms of "paint touches" Joel pretty much gets you over a point every time the ball just touches his hands in the paint.  And it ain't on account of him being on the receiving end of some easy lobs off the pick and roll like with other big.  He can literally just plow his way inside in the most telegraphed of fashion, get the ball, and poof your team will averaged over one point on it.

By your logic, any football team that runs the ball on every single would never punt since even the worst team averages over 3.5 yards per carry....

krukster

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Re: YOU ARE GOING NUTS!
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2021, 08:33:01 am »
By your logic, any football team that runs the ball on every single would never punt since even the worst team averages over 3.5 yards per carry....

If Shaq had been able to hit free throws he'd have slept walked his way to a few 50+ ppg seasons like Wilt.  And the "need" for a Kobe or Wade would not have existed.

Joel if coached right from the start could have had that level of inside dominance.

But Brett and his crack staff of small ball specialists got to work early brainwashing Joel into thinking he NEEDED to get 70+ touches a game on the perimeter, while taking, in Brett's own words, "6 to 8 threes a game, seriously"